Ethanol/Methanol tuning info

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Ethanol/Methanol tuning info

This is a discussion on Ethanol/Methanol tuning info within the Veloster Turbo ECU Tuning and Data Logging forums, part of the Veloster Turbo Garage category; A quick google search or talk with experienced tuner will show power gains with use of E blended gas or meth injection. Figured i'd put ...

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    Ethanol/Methanol tuning info

    A quick google search or talk with experienced tuner will show power gains with use of E blended gas or meth injection. Figured i'd put some info here regarding the VT since I see E and meth talk becoming hot lately.

    The VT, per the owners manual, is rated for up to E10 for safe use but 0 meth. This refers to being in the gas tank. Manufacturers usually understate this as a safety factor is built in. Talking to many connections I have the concensus is not running more than E20-E30 on factory fueling components long term. But if non-compatible components are upgraded then go for whatever fuel it can support.

    Now to the good stuff.....

    Been reviewing logs from 93 pump and E30-E40 mixes and wanted to note some things:

    93 with low E content(up to 10%) has low(~5%) +LTFT.

    E30-E40 has higher(~+20%) +LTFT. Around E40 will cause a CEL due to maxing out(+25%) the fuel trim. Same thing can happen when spraying meth in an injection kit.

    Regarding E85 and T-GDi like we have, a local tuner says he typically sees 5-6% power gains with low iats(winter) and 10-12% power gains with high iats(summer), comparing to 93 E10 pump gas. E blends safe for stock fuel systems would see around half of those gains.

    ***Any E blend in this range will meet the same commanded lambda in the tune. Beyond this and things could get bad if not tuned properly for the E mix or meth amount being sprayed. This is why it's crucial to keep Ethanol mixes or meth spray levels in check for the safety of your motor if not tuned for it.***

    All of this is normal operation for a lambda based fueling system as the VT has. Also being lambda based it makes tuning much easier as fuels will make best power at similar lambda values.

    Lambda for max power on E 0/free or E85 is going to be in the general .8-.85 area. This is 11.7-12.5:1 on the E0 gas afr scale many are accustomed to using. Stock tunes in these cars are not close to being optimal as lambda targeted can be as rich as .65-.73 or 9.5-10.7:1 afr on gas scale! Much richer than this on higher E blends.

    Any input or questions on this are welcomed. I can add more info later if anyone is interested and not bored by this so far. ;-)
    E9C900A and TyBardy like this.
    '15 Auto VT

    PB's with slips and video:

    60' ET 2.05
    1/8 ET 8.70
    1/8 MPH 85.68 MPH
    1/4 ET 13.421
    1/4 MPH 105.57 MPH

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    Ethanol/Methanol tuning info

    I'll provide some data as we go forward. Even if nobody wants to interact right now, it'll be good to get this stuff documented for when people finally come around.
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    E blends of less than ~40% have been, and still being tested with good results thus far. This is at E levels where a CEL is not likely but fuel trims can be high without proper tuning to 0 them out(Which has been done).

    Once I finish out my current tank, I'm going to run a tank with half 93 E10, half E85, to collect some data, zero out the trims, dial in the tune. This will be at a level where it will throw a CEL if not tuned for it.

    Once tune sorted for that then full E85 will be tested and tuned!

    Exciting things in the VT world nowadays! And the car gets excited with E as well!

    Data and info to follow testing.....
    E9C900A and Incognito like this.
    '15 Auto VT

    PB's with slips and video:

    60' ET 2.05
    1/8 ET 8.70
    1/8 MPH 85.68 MPH
    1/4 ET 13.421
    1/4 MPH 105.57 MPH

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    Recently updated the trims to handle ~E45 after a lean DTC was thrown. All good so far and mileage went up much more than expected. Have been getting [email protected], [email protected], 30-[email protected] since the update.

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    Just updating with some pics. Data will follow after testing.....

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    '15 Auto VT

    PB's with slips and video:

    60' ET 2.05
    1/8 ET 8.70
    1/8 MPH 85.68 MPH
    1/4 ET 13.421
    1/4 MPH 105.57 MPH

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    With E testing underway I've found that dialing in the fuel trims is the most tedious task. Having them close to 0% will make the car run a little better. Also having it dialed in for blends over ~E40 will prevent a P2195 CEL. However if I had an ECA vs guessing the E % or driving to get fuel trims to go by, this would be a little quicker/easier to adjust the tune. So a good ECA may be next on the to do list For the sake of E testing and tuning.

    Pros I've noticed when testing thus far:

    Quicker spool up
    More timing advance and power on given tune
    Less power fall off with higher iats or warmer motor
    Higher power levels before experiencing knock/misfire
    No need for cat CEL delete above a certain blend point

    More testing to do on the street before I strap it on the dyno to show difference on a given tune comparing 93 E10 and E85.
    '15 Auto VT

    PB's with slips and video:

    60' ET 2.05
    1/8 ET 8.70
    1/8 MPH 85.68 MPH
    1/4 ET 13.421
    1/4 MPH 105.57 MPH

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    e85 has become incredibly hard to find out here where I live. Very few stations offer it. I believe it is closer for me to get 100 octane than e85... of course, that shit is like $8 a gallon though!

    Since switching to pure Meth, my fuel trims are extremely close to +25% at times. I need to setup logs for this so I can look at the data in a more meaningful way, but just looking at the guage while driving, its jumping all over the place. Thats with max spray setup at 15psi and start spray at 10psi.
    2016 VT DCT - Tech Package with a few factory extras

    K&N Drop in Filter in Modified OEM Air Box | 3.5" Silicone Intake Tube | Cheap BOV | PCV OCC to AOS | Vented Crank Recirc | PUP 5w30 & Magnetic Oil Plug | 60mm TB with ORCP & Coolant Bypass | Coated ORHP | XWEK | 84400 MAP Sensor | 3TBS | Front Strut Bar and PMS Rear Torsion Bar | Torqon Rigid Collars | XPVS | Coated Catless DP (TXE + PMS Street DP w/ 90* bung) | AEM Meth Injection | ORIC v1

    Click Here for build thread and pics

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    Quote Originally Posted by TyBardy View Post
    e85 has become incredibly hard to find out here where I live. Very few stations offer it. I believe it is closer for me to get 100 octane than e85... of course, that shit is like $8 a gallon though!

    Since switching to pure Meth, my fuel trims are extremely close to +25% at times. I need to setup logs for this so I can look at the data in a more meaningful way, but just looking at the guage while driving, its jumping all over the place. Thats with max spray setup at 15psi and start spray at 10psi.
    That's because your settings are off for 100% meth and no tune with given nozzle used. Much more and a CEL will come up.
    '15 Auto VT

    PB's with slips and video:

    60' ET 2.05
    1/8 ET 8.70
    1/8 MPH 85.68 MPH
    1/4 ET 13.421
    1/4 MPH 105.57 MPH

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    I live so far south east, I am not even on that map. However that pin on the SE corner of the map isn't too far from me. I am thining that is a Circle K on the forner of Wiliams Field and Higley. I will actually check that out tomorrow. If a guy were to tune for E85... would all the fuel compenents need to be replaced? Pump and lines? ultimatly, I think with everything I currently have, I will be pushing the limits of my tranny after a tune (but that is just speculation)
    2016 VT DCT - Tech Package with a few factory extras

    K&N Drop in Filter in Modified OEM Air Box | 3.5" Silicone Intake Tube | Cheap BOV | PCV OCC to AOS | Vented Crank Recirc | PUP 5w30 & Magnetic Oil Plug | 60mm TB with ORCP & Coolant Bypass | Coated ORHP | XWEK | 84400 MAP Sensor | 3TBS | Front Strut Bar and PMS Rear Torsion Bar | Torqon Rigid Collars | XPVS | Coated Catless DP (TXE + PMS Street DP w/ 90* bung) | AEM Meth Injection | ORIC v1

    Click Here for build thread and pics

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