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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I wanted to create this thread to discuss tuning with HP Tuners. I recently picked up a mpvi2 and have begun editing the stock file. I am hoping this thread might allow other users to chime in or potentially encourage novice tuners to dabble in creating their own tunes. I am new to VT and I recently picked up a 14 for my DD.

Currently I am working on getting my boost flat and AFRs ideal. (current progress with very little adjustment). My goal for my own personal preference is to not exceed 19psi as I begin to here the turbo surge. I see people on here running more boost but in my personal opinion a surging turbo is an unhappy turbo.
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When observing the stock datalog, I noticed an undesirable boost curve. Also, I noticed the stock tune loves to KR. It leads me to believe that KR, though undesirable is somewhat normal as the Base and Base Correction tables blend together to provide most optimal timing. This is just my theory, I would love to hear other peoples opinion.



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The next eye opening problem I saw with the stock tune was on tip in the target lamda is around 1 (14.7 AFR). At this point the car is already making boost and even though Hyundai thinks its ok, I do not.

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This was an easy fix by messing with the Power Enrichment Tables. To create a nice smooth tip in AFR that reacts fast
with minimal oscillation.

Anyways, I hope this thread catches some traction and we might be able to work together and learn tuning our own cars.

-Scott
 

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There are a few self tuners around. Unfortunately, from what I have seen, information isn't shared that openly.

Also unfortunately, for me, I have a Kia Forte. Same ECU but different stock tune (from what I've read) and it doesn't look like its supported.

I would love to be able to tweak my tune a bit on my own.
 

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A free or cheap self tuning solution could have been released years ago for anyone to tune their VT. This issue is then coming up with a how too which would be extremely difficult to write up and also more difficult for the avg Joe to comprehend. Many blown engines would exist. Only someone who has tuned other vehicles on the regular would be the most competent and even those not familiar with the bosch ecu and tuning these cars specifically would have issues. This is why they make piggyback for the avg Joe or people pay known good tuners for their tunes. Not much good happens in the middle ground.

I will however help you any way I can as I've used HPT before on this car and others and have remote tuned with HPT before on a VT.....
 

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A free or cheap self tuning solution could have been released years ago for anyone to tune their VT. This issue is then coming up with a how too which would be extremely difficult to write up and also more difficult for the avg Joe to comprehend. Many blown engines would exist. Only someone who has tuned other vehicles on the regular would be the most competent and even those not familiar with the bosch ecu and tuning these cars specifically would have issues. This is why they make piggyback for the avg Joe or people pay known good tuners for their tunes. Not much good happens in the middle ground.

I will however help you any way I can as I've used HPT before on this car and others and have remote tuned with HPT before on a VT.....
Makes sense. Often people don't have enough self control when presented with that many options. Kind of a "surely they wouldn't have included this feature if it wasn't safe" mentality. My suspicion is that is even one of the issues with some of the piggybacks, the higher settings for like Racechip for example aren't meant to be used daily but people do.

That being said, the more options like this get investigated and documented the more the platform will grow. This little 1.6 surprises me all the time. I saw a post on IG from sxth the other day about the veloster N with full bolt-ons, an upgraded turbo, and a tune. It was making about the same (or maybe less) power than the 1.6t would with similar mods. Probably just not a fully matured tune like they have for the 1.6 but still...
 

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Yes that mentality and just having little to no clue how to tune in general especially on these cars or knowing what's safe vs unsafe for any given mods fuel etc. Piggybacks are not safe in general as they fool the signals and do not allow some of the ecu safety limiters to work as designed. And some of the OEM tune maps are not safe to start with yet they allow them to be pushed farther by altering the signals.

I'm all about helping the platform grow. That will not happen through encouraging people who have no clue how to tune, datalog, or know how to interpret the data and know safe vs unsafe etc for the platform. People would have to show some base knowledge before I'd be willing to help as that would mean much lower chance of them screwing up the car/s being tuned.

Ya so the VN you refer to is a local to me in my club and I've known the SXTH guys for many years now personally. The cars 2.0T makes similar power to a 1.6T with same mods and tune but the reason not impressive for the displacement is they can only take it to 21 psi right now due to fueling issues unlike the VT in the same power level. At VT with same mods in this power area is pushing mid 20's for boost usually. The 2.0T will be able to push near 400 whp on these mods once fueling is figured out and the boost can be pushed higher.

Now, back on topic, what do you want to know OP?
 

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A surging turbo is not good but also keep in mind that a certain boost pressure is not the cause of that but rather a certain pressure ratio at a certain air flow based on the turbo compressor map. If you do not understand this concept or what causes pressure ratio to be higher/lower in the VT specifically then read up before tuning. Here is the OEM turbo compressor map:
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Here is a snapshot of a VT I remote tuned the other day that clearly makes more than 19 psi and does not surge and at the same ambient air pressure, temperature, and iat you're at.
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Also know that boost does not = power in these cars or any other, air volume and density determine that moreso than boost alone. Pay more attention to absolute load % in regards to power and set goals based on that not boost. You can run 19 psi as your goal but have really good air density and poor tuning and blow the engine.

Your stock tune as many other stock tunes are not safe in many ways and KR is not normal so to speak but better than knock that can damage the engine. KR can be prevented even on a stock tune with proper maintenance and mods which should be done even before tuning the car. Keep that in the forefront of your mind if you haven't thus far.

Hope this helps you so far in some way or another.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So today I was able to dial in the boost how I wanted. I also pulled some timing out of the map up top. I understand KR is there to blend between the low minimum map, so in that regard I have plenty of resolution as long as the ecu detects the knock fast enough to retard timing. None the less I fell very confident in my tune. Most tunes I see here have severe boost spikes at low rpm. To me this is what windows blocks. My goal was to spool quick and slowly ramp up to 19psi. Then taper off in the upper rpm range as the turbo is running out of steam. Afrs look great boost looks great and absolute load I'm not really certain of. I find maps in HP tuners to hardly reference it. Engine Load however is very easy to reference so that is what I'm going with.

Here is a shitty cell phone pic of my 3rd gear pull from today. Let me know what you think. I also forgot to list my mods. Right now I just have a catch can and intake. My solo 3 inch will be here Monday and I plan on deleting the cat. When that happens my motors ability to breathe easier may allow me to get rid of the surge. Based of the stock turbo map trdtoy posted the sweet spot should be around 22 ish psi. However, that's with the right amount of displacement and or engine mods. A log manifold and a restrictive exhaust coupled to a small 1.6 is going to be difficult to get rid of surge. Hopefully a better flowing exhaust will help.

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Discussion Starter #10
I forgot to better explain the picture above. Boost comes in around 3k at 16psi and then peaks to 19psi and is at around 16psi again at a 7k redline. Just for reference with the stock tune I would shift the car around 5800 because it felt so weak up top. Now I can actually ring it out to redline.
 

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No need to retard timing up top if you have proper mods, maintenance, fuel, and other tune parameters in the car especially at the boost you're at.

Yes, boost spikes are never a good thing and do cause head gasket and engine failures in these cars.

Many maps may reference engine load but keep track of engine absolute load % for sure. That's what dictates power in a big way and you may also find it'll dictate K or KR as well.

The mods you have planned are great and will help turbo spool up more than anything since all mods on the exhaust side and not the charge air side. The surge is compressor related not turbine side. This is why I provided the OEM turbo compressor map. Will also help the car make more power before you have K or KR.

The OEM intercooler and hot pipe are big restrictions. The hot pipes I make free up enough to give the car 8 whp or so. Not sure the pressure drop across the hot pipes though. The pressure drop across the OEM intercooler is around 2.5 psi. Pressure drop in the intake may be fairly high as well. So no way safe to be 22 psi except only in the mid to high rpm area but not near redline.

I would also not advise going to 7k rpm with so little mods. Really if that's the only mods you have right now I would not even tune the car any higher in power if it were mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
No need to retard timing up top if you have proper mods, maintenance, fuel, and other tune parameters in the car especially at the boost you're at.

Yes, boost spikes are never a good thing and do cause head gasket and engine failures in these cars.

Many maps may reference engine load but keep track of engine absolute load % for sure. That's what dictates power in a big way and you may also find it'll dictate K or KR as well.

The mods you have planned are great and will help turbo spool up more than anything since all mods on the exhaust side and not the charge air side. The surge is compressor related not turbine side. This is why I provided the OEM turbo compressor map. Will also help the car make more power before you have K or KR.

The OEM intercooler and hot pipe are big restrictions. The hot pipes I make free up enough to give the car 8 whp or so. Not sure the pressure drop across the hot pipes though. The pressure drop across the OEM intercooler is around 2.5 psi. Pressure drop in the intake may be fairly high as well. So no way safe to be 22 psi except only in the mid to high rpm area but not near redline.

I would also not advise going to 7k rpm with so little mods. Really if that's the only mods you have right now I would not even tune the car any higher in power if it were mine.

I was getting some kr around -3 on cylinder 1 if I remember correctly at times up top around 5.5k. That's where I took out some timing. I'm thinking I could have probably left it alone because the min spark table was like -15 deg in that cell but my goal is for the car to never KR.

I did switch gas stations, I was going to Exxon by my house as I have had good luck with their gas where I used to live. Yesterday I needed to refuel and decided to try the Valero by my house and imo the only KR I see now is LSPI around 2k in 6th if I give it too much throttle. Also car is running penzoil plat.

I'm trying to keep this car overall budget oriented. No offense to alot of the vendors on here but a lot of the mods are very exprensive compared to other platforms out there. I understand why but I'm thinking about upgrading my hot pipe to 2.5 inches and instead of running a different intercooler setup just spraying it with distilled water with a snow performance kit. I don't plan to tune for it. I just want to add it on top of tuning to get more consistent back to back pulls without heat soak.

What do you think?
 

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You are using 93 correct? What plugs and gap?

I'm like you as well on budget. Have less than 4k in mods on my car total. That's including coilovers, tires, and wheels too lol!

Why upgrade to a 2.5" hot pipe when the turbo outlet and intercooler inlet are both 1.75"? Mine are the smallest (2") and lightest (pipe less than 1 lb) which flow the best (8 whp) partially due to being smaller which is closer to matching the turbo outlet and intercooler inlet size.

Yes distilled water is a good idea as I see ~40°F iat drop at all times on it.

I think I you need to spend some time reading through this forum especially posts and threads I've made.....
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm using 93 with iridium plugs gapped at .028. Pretty standard common tunning practice. My thought on the hotpipe is to maintain the same diameter of the inlet of the intercooler imo anything more is just creating another pressure drop.

I have been reading many of your post as a come across them. No offense to this forum or the community but alot of members on here give bad advice to other members. I'm not trying to rant or go on a tangent but there is a lot of misinformation on here to filter through.

I had a 2015 Ecoboost mustang before this that made 400whp and 420wtq on 93 plus 50/50 wmi. I'm not saying that validates me as a Veloster tuner but there are definitely common practices as far as DI tuning goes.

Rant over lol. Today my goal is to pull some timing under 30% throttle under 3k rpms with heavy engine Load. So far I have been stock as far as that part of the map is concerned but I'm trying to minimalize LSPI. I am getting some KR when cruising in 6th around 2-2.5k with small pedal inputs. I don't want to rely on KR to pull timing. I want to pull timing to avoid KR.
 

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What plugs though? All are not created equal. That gap is not ideal from what I've found. Also be sure coils have less than 50-60k miles on them. Keep eye on rail pressure as you may need a better fuel line at some point. If your thought is to keep hot pipe diameter the same why go to a 2.5" hot pipe if it's so much larger?

Yes, there is much misinformation here and all over the net. Easy to sort through who you can and can't trust the more you read although a tedious process.

Good job on the EcoBoost. You may find some similarities in the VT tuning and some differences.

Again no need to pull timing anywhere unless your mods or fuel are not good or the tune is off in that area. Timing maps are fine untouched for the most part on these cars. Also realize you can be having real or false KR. Some cars can be bad about having false KR reported some not so much. I've never had to pull timing to not have KR on a VT in that area.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The 2.5 inch hot pipe im on the fence about. I just replaced the coils. Plugs are bosch, i cant remember the numbers off of the top of my head. I felt like going a step colder was unnecessary with my current goals. I also think the HKS hype is just hype. I am sure they are great plugs but at that price point ill pass. My plug gap should be fine. I know I can probably run them out to .032 for these type of coils but at .028 I have less risk of spark blow out yet still a large enough gap.

Funny story, with the ecoboost i use to run expensive brisk plugs and one went bad in the middle of a roadtrip. I stopped by orielys to get some plugs to get me home and put some autolites in it and they lasted till i sold the car and the car ran fantastic.

With KR i want to remove timing to make sure it real knock. If i pull timing and its back, Ill just ignore it. However, even if it picks it up and it is flase knock. It is still pulling timing. So in that case knock sensitivity would need to be changed and TBH that is something I do not like to mess with on any car. I feel like playing with knock sensitivity is just asking for trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Here is some of the partial throttle knock I am getting. All at low engine speeds. Im going to test pulling some timing and see if it improves. If not, I will put the timing back in there and assume it is false knock. It pretty much always occurs around 2k-2.5k and about 25-30% throttle. This is my crusing speed, making my way down back roads some inclined but not warranting downshifting into 5th.

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The hot pipe is not needed if you're only going for 19 psi max and do not care for most power per psi. I tuned a car that made 250 whp on the stock hot pipe and minimal mods.

Hopefully you replaced the coils with OEM coils. Any others have been known to cause issues.

The bosch plugs are crap and have been known to fail like many others in this platform. Ok to skimp in some areas but plugs in this platform is not one of them. If being frugal you'd been better going to an OEM 16+ VT plug. There is no hype in the recommended HKS or NGK plugs. .028" gap is what most use and are ok but I've found slightly tighter to work better especially if you ever experience boost spikes, hot temperatures, and richer afr, or bad batch of fuel. The occurrence of K/KR I've seen go down from proper plugs and gaps. Brisk and auto lite are crap as well. Not sure if you been reading VT misinformation somewhere or trying to relate EB things to the VT but neither are advised. I'm not a hype person nor one to spread misinformation just keep that in mind. Safety first, then power, with budget and goals in mind.

Before pulling timing to try to eliminate KR, first think of what may be causing the KR other than timing and adjust that instead. And not the sensitivity. That's something as well I do not touch in most cases.

For the KR in 6th pull a grade at the same rpm with cruise control on that will pull similar boost and absolute load to see if you have KR then. This will help tell the tale. Also be sure to keep track of actual ignition timing and engine coolant temperature.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I tested pulling timing in those areas. Same results for the most part. At times I am see about -3 deg in 1 cyl. It varies between cyl 3 or 2 but hardly ever at the same time. I think at this point it is safe to say it's resonance. I had 2 deg or KR coasting off throttle so...

I went ahead and drank the coolaid and ordered some ngks. I always liked their copper plugs so I'll try the iridium 1422s. I was able to get them off of rockauto pretty cheap.

As for coils mine are of the lesser expensive variety and I'm ok with that. I don't buy into the hype of replacing with oem. IMO the oems should have lasted longer than 50k. Just sayin
 

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Again, I'm not a hype guy either but rather resort to facts/data only. When I say NGK it does not mean any NGK plug ie 1422's. The hype is not about those anyway. They may work for you but for 2-3x the cost I'd rather pay that for much lower to no failure rate than higher failure rate due to the consequences that could occur when one goes.The best deal on plugs right now if you're going to tune and have less worry of a plug failure is HKS M45XL plugs from a company right now for $100/set shipped. Or pay more for NGK R2556G-9 or R2556B-9 plugs which have had no known failures to my knowledge unlike the second best HKS plugs mentioned.

OEM coils only in these. None of the others tend to work as well or as long as the OEM coils. And they can't be bought that much cheaper in many cases. You can literally get new OEM coils for $200 or sometimes less. Used low mileage coils can e found for even less and I'd still have them over any other coils. Again this is not hype but based on tuning and datalogging many of these cars over the last 6 years or so. The coils tend to last 50k-100k+ miles. How long they last is based on many factors. I advise to replace them in the 50-60k area to be proactive vs reactive. When reactive and cheap in things like this that should take priority you'll end up more times than not paying for things more in the end.

If you want help/tips tuning you need to at least not half ass parts that should not be half assed like plugs and coils because you think something is all hype for whatever reason. You've either been reading and researching none/very little or you've only been reading misinformation. You're potentially creating issues in general or more issues to chase around and attempt to solve via tuning or otherwise. You're only posting screenshots and not the entire log and have no clue what normal or safe looks like in these cars. Post datalog instead of screenshots and myself among others would be able to help a lot better.
 
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