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40 vs. 30 has nothing to do with startup viscosity; that number is the viscosity at operating temperature.

5W is the cold startup viscosity. You should use a 0W or if you don't want to risk voiding the warranty, use a 5W PAO oil that has a very low pour point value.
 

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Lspi..bahhh.. We never had LSPI issues on this car.. We had shit internals from Hyundai. If im not mistaken Lspi was a marketing pitch for a leading brand of oil...
Tell that to the people who ejected pistons and rods out of their block. That doesn't happen from simple spark knock nor basic pre-ignition directly, but either can trigger LSPI events. Catastrophic failure (block windowing) happens due to super/mega knocking which is caused by LSPI events. Do some research. Several auto manufacturers, oil/fuel companies, universities and research organizations have published many, many LSPI articles on SAE. It doesn't matter how strong your pistons and rods are. If it happens, the weakest components will break first.

The main reason why incidents dropped in '14-'16s is because Hyundai changed their tune to reduce boost pressure and offset it with timing. This is why everyone with newer VTs complained about lower boost PSI. Higher PSI and boost spikes cause high enough BMEP values to induce LSPI events. Couple that with calcium content, fuel content, non-synthetic oil, high intake temperature, low coolant temperature (from not being at operating temperature) and carbon deposits in combustion chambers and you have a nice LSPI breeding ground.

I'd also like to think that incidents reduced in part (at least the ones reported here) because smart people read my anti-LSPI tips and followed the protocol as much as feasible for them.
 

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Which specific article are you referring to? I've read more than just one.

We've only known about LSPI for just over two years ago, not three.

No oil can single-handedly "prevent" LSPI but certain chemistry can help to reduce the likelihood.

I for one never claimed CERMA can wholly prevent LSPI, since there are many factors involved, most of which I described in my last post.
 

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Oil Catch Can is probably going to be the best thing to run to stop the engine induction system from having to swallow any greasy watery muck the from that comes from the crankcase ventilation system that way you are not adding to the LSPI with crank case contamination in the combustion chamber.
Zapp
We've been touting the importance of catch cans here well before LSPI became known to us.

Right I've got to look into getting/making one, that would certainly add some piece of mind as well. Are there any designs that work better than others? I see people also put them in series, I'm assuming to add to effectiveness. I'm guessing that you could improve the effectiveness of a single unit to perform the same as having two conventional ones in series to save some space. Essentially you're allowing the gasses to cool and giving them something to form droplets/condense on. Anyone ever think of finding a way of cooling the air more so that condensation would happen easier? Air conditioned OCC? :crazy:
I'm putting a single can VT-specific kit together but can't provide specifics here. Do a search for #velosterturbo on Instagram and look for a recent pic of dirty valves.

Something else for everyone to look at.

I have run only Mobil 1 in my cars for years and no engine issues at all. But this test is interesting. goin to run Royal Purple in the Turbo and see how it does. since it will be my daily driver in will be seeing way more miles then any of my other cars.

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil Tests.pdf
This test is nearly 10 years old. Oil chemistry has come a long way since then and Royal Purple isn't what it used to be, since they were forced to change their formula. Stick with a PAO (or ester) oil; alternatively, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Pennzoil Platinum would be the only group III oils to consider, since they are created from natural gas.
 

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I looked up the Shell Helix products a few weeks ago and they are all made using PurePlus tech, same as PUP & PP. They're definitely not made exclusively for Hyundai.

You can buy it off of Amazon or eBay but since it ships from the UK, it turns out to be much more expensive.
 

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They have a hyundai specific blend of shell helix.....
They do have an oil that is Hyundai-recommended according to this chart:
http://shell.jungent.com/marketing/specifications.pdf

https://prodepc.blob.core.windows.n...ix_Ultra_Professional_AH-L_5W-30_(en)_TDS.pdf

Go to the Shell Helix site, enter UK location and select the Kia Procee'd GT (Closest thing to a VT; G4FJ) and it recommends SH Ultra Pro AF 5W-30 (not AH-L).

http://www.shell.com/motorist/oils-.../shell-helix-ultra-professional-af-5w-30.html

No mention of Hyundai there.

Now look up SH Ultra Pro AH-L and there you'll see the blah-blah about Hyundai but their own site doesn't recommend it for the same engine as the VT. Nowhere does it say it's made exclusively or specifically for Hyundai engines.

Until they start supporting US vehicles and offer it here, there's no need to pay through the nose for it when PUP/PP is just fine for the masses.

Look up any year USDM VT there and it doesn't bring up any SH variant but FormulaShell Synthetic SAE 5W-30. Last time I checked (a month ago) it pointed to PUP/PP...
 

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I've been testing Quaker State ultimate durability and so far it seems smoother than Pennzoil Platinum.... It does have 5x the moly in it and also rat 540 says 120,000 psi film strength.... Worth a look guys...

Plus Hyundai says they partnered with Shell oil (who owns Quaker state now) so I think the product quality of the QSUD has gone way up this year...

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So you put in QSUD 0W-20, 5W-20 or 5W-30?

Shell has owned both Pennzoil and Quaker State for about 15 years now...
 

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Thanks for the reminder. Downloaded it to Kindle and about to read it. Looks like ExxonMobil and Toyota collaborated on it. Toyota has written a few of the anti-LSPI papers on SAE that I bought and they have already come up with their own anti-LSPI oil, but I've not found any info on it being actually available here. If it is, they're keeping it rather quiet, which to me makes 0 sense.
 

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I'm on page six... All they're really talking about are establishing relationships of how each element affects a key property and level reduction or increase past thresholds move the effect towards anti-LSPI and away from their primary function, or vice versa, for the two inventions (different elemental additive combinations).

What's somewhat disturbing is that the non-patent references they use are quite old; 2011-2013.

The recent research papers use previous research to come up with better tests and more valid results.

Continuing reading...
 

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Well, that was interesting. While I'm still digesting it and will have to go back and forth several times reviewing the results according to the levels of each element, the initial takeaway for me is similar as before.

Based on ExxonMobil/Toyota's testing results, too much Ca is bad, moderate levels of Ca are ok as long as Mg levels are equivalent or higher and low levels of Ca (with moderate levels of Mg) are best. Mb & P are somewhat irrelevant but both should be present more for their primary functions rather than as specific anti-LSPI agents. As I read in another research paper recently, it advocated equal low-moderate amounts of Ca and Mg as being ideal.

Since this document indicated that it takes 1.65 times more molecules of Mg to equal Ca, Mg content (measured as ppm in oil tests) needs to be 1.65 times the amount of Ca in order to be considered "equal."

For those who want to review for themselves, I suggest looking at the results tables at the end first to see which oil compositions failed the LSPI evaluation, then review the Ca:Mg ratio in the preceding tables showing the relative amounts based on the formulas at the beginning. Then repeat that for the ones that passed LSPI evaluation but still produced LSPI events, review the Ca:Mg ratios. Repeat again for the compositions that passed LSPI evaluation and had the highest cleanliness results, review Ca:Mg ratios and so on.

Then go back and read the relational expressions/formulas at the beginning and it will make a bit more sense. You'll then have to jump from front to back, review the data, the compositions and compare to the "preferable" ranges they advocate near the middle.

Skip the middle section after they start talking about the million different compounds for each function type, unless you have an advanced chemistry degree, as it's rather irrelevant since oils never have specific ingredients on oil container labels.

It's also interesting to note that they used mineral base oils and one of those had some PAO mixed in, but no ester base oils. They also only tested 0W-20 and 0W-16 from what it stated.

Compared to the other research papers I've read, they did not focus on the effect that PAO and ester base oils have (basically said there was no difference in anti-LSPI likelihood), whereas more recent research papers indicate there is a strong correlation between base oil type and LSPI prevalance (ester being most resistant, PAO next and Group III least resistant). They also didn't cover NOACK/volatility and the effect fuel dilution has (nor flashpoint, nor octane, nor ethanol content, for that matter), along with not covering oil droplet theory vs. carbon (or other additive) deposit particle theories.

They did give some insight on recent views on SAPS content having an effect on deposits without specifically focusing on it. Low-SAPS oils are better for preventing non-carbon deposits. These can combine with carbon deposits, of course. Pretty much any compound aggregating in the combustion chambers and on valves as deposits are to be avoided (cleaned up by other methods like WAI or prevented by using catch cans or AOSes).

Just goes to show that is very difficult to come up with a truly comprehensive method of testing for LSPI, or at least nobody has achieved it due to the sheer multitude of variables. That's why I said don't take a single paper and assume it's gospel. Read many research papers and formulate your own conclusions based on their aggregate consensus vs. outlier results.

Enjoyed it, V, thanks.

Reference (link to PDF here):
http://www.velosterturbo.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13933&p=551594
 

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Just a quick review again; too much calcium, surprisingly low amount of molybdenum (since the product has Moly in the name), higher than normal iron wear, moderate levels of phosphorus & zinc (indicator of ZDDP). Do not know if this is PAO-based or ester-based. My guess is not.
 

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There is no such thing as Group III PAO, so it appears to be a semi-synthetic oil.

Group III = hydrocracked mineral-based
Group III+ = natural gas-based
Group IV = PAO-based
Group V = Ester-based

Personally, I'd stay away from any Group III oil, especially one with high calcium.
 

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Following up on the AMSOIL front. They finally reformulated Signature Series to be anti-LSPI and in the process, there's a new interim oil specification since GF-6 will not be ready until 2019.

GF-5 Plus (aka SN Plus) is the new spec.
https://fuelsandlubes.com/oems-ask-api-for-ilsac-gf-5-plus-lspi-standard-by-january-1-2018/

https://fuelsandlubes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ILSAC-GF-5-draft-Jul-20-2017-LSPI.pdf

Doesn't describe how the LSPI test is performed, only that the maximum number of LSPI events is 5. Also does not say in what timeframe.

Anyway, we can now add reformulated AMSOIL Signature Series to the short list of anti-LSPI oils.

I'll look for VOAs on BITOG.

More info:
https://kendallmotoroil.com/newsroom/gf-5-plus-addressing-lspi-in-direct-injection-engines
 

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Just so you know, Warren oil is the cheap shit the local gas stations carry.

Their MAG1 offerings all have NOACK readings of 12-13%. That's bad.

Flashpoint is 226-227° C. Average.

Calcium weight is .135% and judging by the percentage of the other elements seems to be comparatively high.
Their literature makes no mention of GF-5 Plus, nor GF-6 nor LSPI.

No mention of PAO (Group IV) or ester (Group V) base stocks.

I'd avoid it unless I was cutting it with CERMA oil and it would likely have to be like a buck a quart.
 
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