Veloster Turbo Forum banner
1 - 20 of 240 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Amsoil signature series 100% PAO group IV synthetic oil all the way... I'd use a ester oil like motul if we're not for the fuel dilution issue on GDI motors... Group V ester oil suffer badly when diluted by fuel where as PAO oil retains its properties longer in the presence of fuel.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Hey everyone,

I have been collecting some information that presents a different viewpoint about Amsoil than what has been presented here and in other threads.

Many people trust and use Amsoil signature series 5w-30. I myself was one of those people, but I am beginning to think very differently about this oil, and will probably not use it again.

First, I'm NOT saying that this is a bad oil and that you should stop using it immediately. But the data I am finding is suggesting that Amsoil signature series PAO oil 5w-30 is probably NOT the best oil for GDI motor applications, actually, it has a couple very negative characteristics when used in a GDI motor.

CALCIUM content in oil :
The currently available literature, white papers, and industry leading research projects have definitely noticed the high failure rate of GDI engines and looked into possible causes. There was found a positive correlation between the amount of calcium in the oil the frequency and duration of LSPI, knocking, detonating, and super knocking events. More calcium, more knocking. The research concluded that you should avoid oils with high calcium content.

On both my used oil analysis and virgin oil analysis of Amsoil signature series 5w-30, they report about 3200-3500 parts per million. The very popular Pennzoil platinum oil is around 1800-2200 PPM. So why would we want to use Amsoil oil that has almost twice the calcium content in it and that could stimulate LSPI and engine knocking??

ENGINE KNOCK AND PING :
My first tune was a BTRcc canned tuned and it worked. I was running Amsoil 5w30 and the tune was pinging/detonating while accelerating. On a hunch we changed the oil over to Penzsoil and immediately the pings went away.

FUEL DILUTION :
I send my oil to Blackstone and we've established that my car regularly sees about 4% fuel dilution in the oil. Consulting with Hyundai tech line and my dealership they said this is normal for GDI motors, and to get used to it. My issue is that with that much fuel in the oil, Blackstone is reporting that the viscosity of the Amsoil has dropped to a 5w20 viscosity oil after only 3500 miles of usage.

My Pennzoil used oil analysis reports did show fuel dilution but the viscosity was still stable, and had not dropped below 5w30... Why is the Amsoil so susceptible to fuel dilution, don't we want to avoid this characteristic of and oil in GDI motors?

My concern here is that with the lower viscosity you have a thinner oil film and less film strength to hold up again high sheer and high direct pressures, thus less engine protection.

LOW COMPRESSION :
When we got the last oil report back we decided it might be a good idea to check all four of my cylinders compression.. We did and they read at 155-160 psi compression, which is low. That day we swapped out the 3500 mile old Amsoil and dropped in fresh 5w-30 penzsoil... All 4 cylinders came back up to 174r-178 PSI.

EXHAUST / PAINT CONTAMINATION:
Every time I ran the Amsoil the back hatch of the Veloster, windows, paint, and exhaust would be covered in a yellow nicotine colored oil-like residue that would not wipe off. I had to use a degreaser / detergent at 100% strength to get the exhaust oil residue off.. It didn't matter if I was driving aggressively or slow there was still a residue afterwards. When I switched to Penzsoil, the only residue was little black soot dots that rubbed right off.

All these observations add up to one seemingly obvious conclusion. That with the high calcium, easily diluted by fuel viscosity, and other mentioned drawbacks, that Amsoil is exactly the type of oil we should be avoiding? Even though it is a PAO oil, that doesn't offset the other disadvantages...

Update: Penzsoil for 3 weeks now and my catch can's are not nearly as full as they usually are, and my pinging knocking noise is still gone...

Vince
 
  • Like
Reactions: orbeavhawk and -X-

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: -X-

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
So at this point of the discussion, do we have a consensus on amsoil or pup. Is amsoil a better lubricant but with calcium that doesn't help on the lspi issues. Or pup which may be a lesser quality oil with less benefits but without calcium.
I'm really on one change per year because I do less than 3k per season, regretfully, and really just want the best sitting in there most of the year. The little I do drive it, its not pushed very hard, and not driven in freezing temps. My gut tells me to stick with amsoil for my situation, but I'd grab some pup if the calcium issue outweighed the benefits of amsoil.
I think Pennzoil is the better lubricant for this car. Amsoil is a great lubricant but with the combination of GDI injection and high boost if you have a tune, personally I think the Amsoil leaves some things to be desired.

I ran Amsoil for about 10,000 miles over 3 oil changes and within the first 2,000 miles it had stained the back of my car nicotine brown/yellow and I'm still trying to get the stains out of the paint. There is just something about the Amsoil that causes it to get very thin and creates enormous amounts of blow by.

Also with the Amsoil I had issues with low compression. I was starting routine maintenance at home and checked the compression with my toolset and got around 158 PSI so I took it to the dealer to get the engine looked over. We did a compression test at the dealership with the same 3000 mile old Amsoil in the motor and he was only getting 156 psi. At this point my technician was going to warranty my motor but we went ahead and changed the oil anyways with Pennzoil and retested the compression right afterwards. Low and behold the compression went up to 176 - 178 PSI across all 4 cylinders. We were pretty shocked to say the least. I had the Amsoil sent out to Blackstone for analysis and they said it had dropped to a 5w - 20 weight. Which was another shocker. The only conclusion we could come to was that the Amsoil had gotten too thin to properly seal the rings. From that day on I switched back to Pennzoil and have not had low compression issues anymore. Also my catch cans only fill up half as fast now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: orbeavhawk

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: rspec2014

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Pictures of the yellow brown stains left on the back of my VT from running Amsoil. Again I think it is a good oil, and even though it dropped to a 5w-20 after use, the wear metals in the oil analysis were not increased... just something weird going on with it in my car all related to it getting thin IMO.

As soon as I switched away from Amsoil no more stain formation. Have run Penzsoil and at one time castrol and neither produced this residue.

Auto part Vehicle Bicycle saddle Automotive exterior Fender

Architecture Automotive exterior Tints and shades Rim Glass
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Either of you running a catless downpipe?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Ok me too, just wondering if that could be a cause, guess not
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Comparison of catch can contents after 3500 miles...

Pennzoil bottle is much thicker and looks like "oil", with a viscosity somewhere between the original oil and water.

Amsoil bottle has what looks like foamy emulsified detergent and an "oil like" layer, but has the viscosity of straight up water with brown food coloring in it...

Oh and holy crap look how much more blowby and vapor was produced and captured with the Amsoil vs. The Pennzoil...

Really shocked to see this and glad I saved the contents of the catch cans for comparison....

Just an FYI, no axe to grind against any oil in particular.

 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
This is why more people should do their own testing.

Good stuff, V!
Yeah, I was really just blown away by the results of the test.... The motor in both my VT and my NA both ran great and felt solid/smooth on the Pennzoil before I had catch cans... This could be why
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
I run the HKS m45xl and have zero issues. I am tuned also. Have heard of the 1422s popping but a lot of it has to do with tune and fuel as well...

Regardless the HKS plugs have a center electrode and insulator that are much better protected by the metal shell of the plug body whereas the ngk plug really hangs it all out there and doesn't protect that fragile porcelin insulator.

Ok I digress... Going back to topic
 
  • Like
Reactions: Velostaaman and -X-

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Is that Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra Platinum? I forget which of the two is the better one for us.
Pennzoil platinum is the one in the catch can waste bottle pics I posted

I actually have not tried Pennzoil ultra.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Insanity Crow

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
False. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is the better of the two, but is typically only found online. Pennzoil Platinum is the lesser version that can be found locally.
Oh no, I wasn't saying Pennzoil platinum was better..... I was just answering his question as to which one was in the catch can bottles in the pic I posted
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Or mix amsoil, penzoil,cerma, and redline all together into a ampupcrmarl stew...thats what I do :cool:
Don't forget the liquid moly too
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
I've been testing Quaker State ultimate durability and so far it seems smoother than Pennzoil Platinum.... It does have 5x the moly in it and also rat 540 says 120,000 psi film strength.... Worth a look guys...

Plus Hyundai says they partnered with Shell oil (who owns Quaker state now) so I think the product quality of the QSUD has gone way up this year...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
QSUD 5w-30, I liked rat 540s 120k psi rating on it and it uses a different type of moly molecule at 5x more than PP or PUP.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
swordfish referred me to this article a bit ago.

AMSOIL is reworking their oils to be GF-6-compliant (anti-LSPI)!

As a dealer, I mentioned this to my lead over a year ago for the co. to investigate. Looks like they actually took my advice...

https://v.gd/amsoilantilspi
Looking forward to see what how much their formulation changes.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
For sure; I'm positive VOAs will be received from BlackStone to see if they added Mg and reduced Ca.
Yup... Amsoil always had very high Ca so I imagine it only could go down from where it was.

Have any time to dig into that patent paper I posted? I haven't had a chance... Some serious formulas and maths in there... Reminds me of balancing equations in a matrix with multiple unknowns...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Thanks for the reminder. Downloaded it to Kindle and about to read it. Looks like ExxonMobil and Toyota collaborated on it. Toyota has written a few of the anti-LSPI papers on SAE that I bought and they have already come up with their own anti-LSPI oil, but I've not found any info on it being actually available here. If it is, they're keeping it rather quiet, which to me makes 0 sense.
Patent pending? Lol...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

· Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Since when does patent pending mean someone can't release a product or use the technology in other products? C'mon now...
was mostly just a joke ;-)
 
1 - 20 of 240 Posts
Top