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As in the JB4 is adjusting what the ECU is seeing. If something goes wrong or you simply turn it back to map 0, the ecu is back to doing all of the work. This is what I mean by "outside of the tune". The factory closed loop maps are unchanged. The JB4 is fooling the sensors into reading something else in order to find optimizations in performance.

On the topic of wmi. I'm not referring to the car being lean. The car could have plenty of fuel and correct AFR, but not enough knock protection (ie. octane, or more specifically AKI) for a given timing or boost increase. Which your wideband isn't going to tell you.

So meth outside the tune = so long as you're running the correct gas you're supposed to be running, you're fine.
meth in the tune = you need to be running meth to avoid knock with the demands of the tune.

the difference between ecu vs piggyback is that, if your jb4 is handling everything, if you run out of meth, the jb4 will just dial it back. Whereas best case scenario, the ECU will see knock and pull timing. worst case scenario, boom.
This, exactly. I'm open to the idea of a tune accounting for WMI, but I'd need to have a fallback in case I run out or something goes wrong with the WMI setup. Short of keeping flashing equipment in the car, I'm not sure what the options are for on-the-go retuning. Part of the reason I was interested in the EK1.
 

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This, exactly. I'm open to the idea of a tune accounting for WMI, but I'd need to have a fallback in case I run out or something goes wrong with the WMI setup. Short of keeping flashing equipment in the car, I'm not sure what the options are for on-the-go retuning. Part of the reason I was interested in the EK1.
It's fun. I know about how much I go through in a week so I'm not super worried about it. You could also extend the led light to somewhere you can see easier and most wmi controllers will tell you when you're low.

Basically that, or the ek1. It's just the ek1 costs alot and that's before the cost of tuning with them. Keeping a laptop and the cables in my car is just makes more sense to me. But if had money to burn I probably would get an ek1 if sxth was my tuner.
 

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This, exactly. I'm open to the idea of a tune accounting for WMI, but I'd need to have a fallback in case I run out or something goes wrong with the WMI setup. Short of keeping flashing equipment in the car, I'm not sure what the options are for on-the-go retuning. Part of the reason I was interested in the EK1.
Stacking the JB4 with whatever flash you have is ideal. It adds safety as it knows when the WMI is flowing. If you add a tank with a level control, it will also disable WMI until that is reminded.
 

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Stacking the JB4 with whatever flash you have is ideal. It adds safety as it knows when the WMI is flowing. If you add a tank with a level control, it will also disable WMI until that is reminded.
The issue of too much is timing can still exist. If I recall correctly, JB4's can't affect timing directly. So while the jb4 can reduce boost, if you run out and the jb4 goes off, you're still running too much timing for just pump gas.

The jb4 is only going to add safety on what it contributes. I do think it's a cool product though!
 

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The issue of too much is timing can still exist. If I recall correctly, JB4's can't affect timing directly. So while the jb4 can reduce boost, if you run out and the jb4 goes off, you're still running too much timing for just pump gas.

The jb4 is only going to add safety on what it contributes. I do think it's a cool product though!
The question is why would you have so much timing when the WMI isn't flowing? Since you don't have a specialized engine computer or some select GM engine controls so it knows when the water methanol is flowing. The PCM giveth and it takth away in terms of timing advance.

In other words it does a fuel quality test at start up. If you are running less than ideal fuel, it will give you X timing and the car will drive/feel a certain way.

This is why I don't run pure pump gas anymore. The car runs much, much better on E blends. I get the timing advance at start up and runs with that advance as long as that fuel is detected.

The PCM will add a little more and little more and a little more as the car runs. That's why on the dyno it takes 3-4-5 pulls to get the best numbers out of these closed loop turbo cars.
 

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The question is why would you have so much timing when the WMI isn't flowing? Since you don't have a specialized engine computer or some select GM engine controls so it knows when the water methanol is flowing. The PCM giveth and it takth away in terms of timing advance.

In other words it does a fuel quality test at start up. If you are running less than ideal fuel, it will give you X timing and the car will drive/feel a certain way.

This is why I don't run pure pump gas anymore. The car runs much, much better on E blends. I get the timing advance at start up and runs with that advance as long as that fuel is detected.

The PCM will add a little more and little more and a little more as the car runs. That's why on the dyno it takes 3-4-5 pulls to get the best numbers out of these closed loop turbo cars.
More power is the reason. More timing = more air = more boom = more power.

If the tune asks for 19 degrees at redline, it's going to try to hit 19 degrees at 6500.

Now, there are protections such as, knock detection, air density and iats, boost, load, fuel pressure limits that will dictate if you hit 19 or not. But that's the goal

But there is no wire from your wmi kit to the ecu telling it you ran out of meth. The only thing the car will see is fuel trims and iats trend upward. Which is normal, if the goal was also normal. If it hits 19 degrees(and high boost) and you're out of meth, you will be in knock territory. Which like I said before, best case, car detects knock, pulls timing, or limp mode. Worst case, boom. But that's the responsibility of the user. Same as making sure you don't put 87 in your car that asks for 93. Best case, it'll knock and pull timing. Worst case, boom.

Whereas with the jb4, it's adding boost and adjusting afr to make use of the methanol. And if it runs out, it just adds less power or turns off. Which is good. But it's not max effort, because it can't control things like timing. But not everyone wants max effort so that's fine.
 

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This is a max effort.

We aren't comparing apples to apples.

My car is stock from air box to exhaust tips. 61 whp gain from the JB4 alone.

Not even trying that hard, there is another 2-3 tenths in different fuels.
 

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The point I wanted to get across was that for ecu tuning alone, if you run out of meth, there's little in the way of safety net. Because the wmi system is separate from the ecu. piggyback is a different story.

Tuning for meth is fun, but having it "out of the tune" is super beneficial too. Whether you're going to be able to feel the bump in power with those two options is up to you
But the fun part is Tuning doesn't have one right answer. Me and a friend of mine make similar power on VT's, where my car is tuned for 93+meth, and his car is E85+Meth. Two different ways of getting there if you look at the logs.
 

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It's fun. I know about how much I go through in a week so I'm not super worried about it. You could also extend the led light to somewhere you can see easier and most wmi controllers will tell you when you're low.
when tuned for wmi I just kept a 2 gallon gas jug premixed in the trunk held in by that little hyundai net. When ever I saw it start to flash I'd just top it off. Just having to remember to keep the gas jug filled or opt for the 5 gallon w/m container. Did notice tho, cruise control ate the w/m up on the highway more than I thought.
 

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Yeah you have to adjust your meth settings to be optimal, I keep mine at about 7/28 for my setup, 7psi is outside of most cruising. Also depends on where your wmi is getting it's boost reference.
 

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I keep it set optimal and use a toggle switch to off when I do not need to use it and on when I know I will want or need it.
 
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