Veloster Turbo Forum banner
1 - 20 of 69 Posts

·
Vendor
Joined
·
3,541 Posts
pretty awesome but finding a Gcoupe setup for sale will be hard to come by and then needing the brackets to bolt the caliper to.

With the Vturbo's 12" rotors, some slotted rotors and good pads SHOULD be more than plenty for anything most of us will ever need. Its not like the car comes with 10" rotors or anything.

speaking of, just saw F/R brembo calipers on ebay for 1200$ alone.. then brackets, then new rotors..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
pretty awesome but finding a Gcoupe setup for sale will be hard to come by and then needing the brackets to bolt the caliper to.

With the Vturbo's 12" rotors, some slotted rotors and good pads SHOULD be more than plenty for anything most of us will ever need. Its not like the car comes with 10" rotors or anything.

speaking of, just saw F/R brembo calipers on ebay for 1200$ alone.. then brackets, then new rotors..
Isn't changing wheels a must when it comes to replacing the calipers and discs with something bigger on these cars? Mine has like 1/3 of a centimeter between the edge of the caliper and my rim? Maybe I'm just flat out ignorant or is this true?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Anyone know the stopping distance decrease with the Brembo brakes?
ZERO.

Stopping distance won't decrease unless you improve the available traction, especially when the OEM brakes are already capable of "locking them up." Brake system upgrades mainly benefit in the ability to stave off "fade," a condition where the brakes overheat and friction between the rotor and pad material decrease dramatically.

TIRES, will make the biggest difference in stopping distance. Ditch the Solus for a set of Micheline Pilot Super Sports, and you can probably chop off several ft in your braking distance. I had the opportunity to "test" a set of high end summer tires vs. all seasons on stopping distance from 60mph on the same car, and the difference is on the orders of up to 6-10 feet and then some.

But upgrading the brake equipment will just mean you're locking them up sooner, which may ultimately not be beneficial to panic stopping distance. If you think a set of expensive calipers will make your car stop faster...Well, it'll make your pedal feel like it's firmer and therefore, 1/3rd pedal application would equal to 1/2 pedal application and thus "feel" like you've got better stopping power, but ultimately? If you're going to plow into the car in front of you with OEM brakes and OEM tires, changing from the OEM brakes to Brembos from the Genesis Coupe isn't going to prevent you from plowing into the car in front of you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,106 Posts
ZERO.

Stopping distance won't decrease unless you improve the available traction, especially when the OEM brakes are already capable of "locking them up." Brake system upgrades mainly benefit in the ability to stave off "fade," a condition where the brakes overheat and friction between the rotor and pad material decrease dramatically.

TIRES, will make the biggest difference in stopping distance. Ditch the Solus for a set of Micheline Pilot Super Sports, and you can probably chop off several ft in your braking distance. I had the opportunity to "test" a set of high end summer tires vs. all seasons on stopping distance from 60mph on the same car, and the difference is on the orders of up to 6-10 feet and then some.

But upgrading the brake equipment will just mean you're locking them up sooner, which may ultimately not be beneficial to panic stopping distance. If you think a set of expensive calipers will make your car stop faster...Well, it'll make your pedal feel like it's firmer and therefore, 1/3rd pedal application would equal to 1/2 pedal application and thus "feel" like you've got better stopping power, but ultimately? If you're going to plow into the car in front of you with OEM brakes and OEM tires, changing from the OEM brakes to Brembos from the Genesis Coupe isn't going to prevent you from plowing into the car in front of you.
Agreed. Michelin Pilot Super Sports are one of the best you can put on anything =)

Though you can put a parachute if you want to stop quicker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
ZERO.

Stopping distance won't decrease unless you improve the available traction, especially when the OEM brakes are already capable of "locking them up." Brake system upgrades mainly benefit in the ability to stave off "fade," a condition where the brakes overheat and friction between the rotor and pad material decrease dramatically.

TIRES, will make the biggest difference in stopping distance. Ditch the Solus for a set of Micheline Pilot Super Sports, and you can probably chop off several ft in your braking distance. I had the opportunity to "test" a set of high end summer tires vs. all seasons on stopping distance from 60mph on the same car, and the difference is on the orders of up to 6-10 feet and then some.

But upgrading the brake equipment will just mean you're locking them up sooner, which may ultimately not be beneficial to panic stopping distance. If you think a set of expensive calipers will make your car stop faster...Well, it'll make your pedal feel like it's firmer and therefore, 1/3rd pedal application would equal to 1/2 pedal application and thus "feel" like you've got better stopping power, but ultimately? If you're going to plow into the car in front of you with OEM brakes and OEM tires, changing from the OEM brakes to Brembos from the Genesis Coupe isn't going to prevent you from plowing into the car in front of you.
I don't understand statements like this...

I once had a 2005 Toyota Tacoma X-Runner. It came with your standard run of the mill front disc brake setup you'd find on any V6 Tacoma.

I installed a TRD Big Brake Kit (4 piston calipers, kit made by StopTech).

For some strange reason, the Truck stopped incredibly quicker and in a Much shorter distance than before. To the tune of, if you weren't wearing a seatbelt, you'd be going through the windshield.

So if what you say is true, how did this happen?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,297 Posts
I don't understand statements like this...

I once had a 2005 Toyota Tacoma X-Runner. It came with your standard run of the mill front disc brake setup you'd find on any V6 Tacoma.

I installed a TRD Big Brake Kit (4 piston calipers, kit made by StopTech).

For some strange reason, the Truck stopped incredibly quicker and in a Much shorter distance than before. To the tune of, if you weren't wearing a seatbelt, you'd be going through the windshield.

So if what you say is true, how did this happen?
the point of what he's saying is if you don't have enough tire to stop you it doesnt matter how good your brakes are what swapping the brakes would do is decrease fade. want to see if upgraded brakes will help... go 50 and stomp on the breaks .. if the car screeches tires.. bigger brakes arent gonna do anything if anything it'll make it worse.

like hs said it'll feel like you have more stopping power.. like you said... if you werent wearing a seatbelt you'd be going through the windshield.. because it has the POWER to spot you quicker.. but if your tires cant hold it more stopping power doesn't mean anything.. just like if your suspension can't adjust it wont make a difference either stopping power is all about tires and suspension just as much as it's about rotors and pads
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
So if what you say is true, how did this happen?
Psychosomatic response.

If you had put a set of tape measures to the actual stopping distance BEFORE and AFTER the brake install, you'll have likely found that on a single stop from speed, the actual stopping distance probably would not have improved by measurable amounts (or would be well within the statistical error). If you have a few minutes to spare, read this article.

The reason why, after putting on some fancy TRD brakes on your truck, the truck feels like it's stopping faster, is because typically, a larger rotor and a spread out piston surface provides more brake torque and clamps down on the rotor harder with the same pedal travel. Meaning, when you brake with the factory OEM brakes at 50% pedal travel, it provides, say, 65% of the pressure needed before activating the ABS threshold (let's say 100% is when it "locks up"). With the "big" TRD brake kit, 50% pedal travel equals 80% pressure needed to activate ABS, therefore at the same brake pressure from your foot, it feels like the car's stopping "harder" because, well, it is. But you could have easily achieved that same result by pressing on the brakes HARDER with the OEM system.

All the fancy multiple piston, larger disc system does for you is bring the ABS threshold on brake pedal pressure WAY down. It may feel like you're braking or slowing down faster, but in actual practice? If you had to make a panic stop, and with the OEM brakes and tires you plow into the car in front of you by 3 ft? The big brakes may mean you plow into the car in front of you by 3 ft, but you'll look damn good doing it.

Now, if you're taking that Toyota truck on the track? That TRD brakes will likely mean that you'll be able to stay on track and keep braking for a full 25 minute session, while the OEM system will be crying foul within 3 turns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
I know for trucks (Jeeps in my case) benefit from larger brakes due to increased rotational mass from larger tires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Psychosomatic response.

If you had put a set of tape measures to the actual stopping distance BEFORE and AFTER the brake install, you'll have likely found that on a single stop from speed, the actual stopping distance probably would not have improved by measurable amounts (or would be well within the statistical error). If you have a few minutes to spare, read this article.

The reason why, after putting on some fancy TRD brakes on your truck, the truck feels like it's stopping faster, is because typically, a larger rotor and a spread out piston surface provides more brake torque and clamps down on the rotor harder with the same pedal travel. Meaning, when you brake with the factory OEM brakes at 50% pedal travel, it provides, say, 65% of the pressure needed before activating the ABS threshold (let's say 100% is when it "locks up"). With the "big" TRD brake kit, 50% pedal travel equals 80% pressure needed to activate ABS, therefore at the same brake pressure from your foot, it feels like the car's stopping "harder" because, well, it is. But you could have easily achieved that same result by pressing on the brakes HARDER with the OEM system.

All the fancy multiple piston, larger disc system does for you is bring the ABS threshold on brake pedal pressure WAY down. It may feel like you're braking or slowing down faster, but in actual practice? If you had to make a panic stop, and with the OEM brakes and tires you plow into the car in front of you by 3 ft? The big brakes may mean you plow into the car in front of you by 3 ft, but you'll look damn good doing it.

Now, if you're taking that Toyota truck on the track? That TRD brakes will likely mean that you'll be able to stay on track and keep braking for a full 25 minute session, while the OEM system will be crying foul within 3 turns.
I understand how brakes work, and I get how stopping distance may not improve on a vehicle that comes equipped with a proper braking set up (VT as an example).

But, if you're unfamiliar with 2005+ Toyota Tacoma's, they come with small front disc brakes, and they have drums in the rear. The OEM brakes on those trucks is pretty damn terrible.

I would suspect that what you're saying would hold true if one added a Big brake kit to a VT. Afterall, the stock brakes are quite good.

However as it pertains to my X-Runner, what you say is simply not true. Those brakes were terrible and that truck Needed a BBK and I guarantee you the stopping distance was greatly reduced by adding that BBK.

I wish I would have done an official measurement test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
That's just the thing though. Manufacturers engineer the OE brake system to be able to engage ABS on a panic stop, so no matter how "sh*tty" you think your brakes are, no manufacturer is dumb enough to put a system that isn't capable of "locking them up" and therefore under most panic stop situations, the OE system will work just as well for that one single stop as any "improved" aftermarket system.

Trucks benefit from larger brakes because larger brakes dissipate heat faster. Heat built-up is what prevents the system from stopping the car from 65 mph repeatedly in a short span of time. Especially if you're towing or hauling stuff in the bed of the truck, bigger brakes will help because the OE systems are NOT engineered to exchange that much more momentum into heat repeatedly. So yes, if you're towing or using the truck as a work truck (i.e. loaded up with stuff all the time), upgrading to larger brakes WILL have benefits, especially braking from higher than normal freeway speeds (since the force/heat to dissipate grows exponentially with speed).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
That's just the thing though. Manufacturers engineer the OE brake system to be able to engage ABS on a panic stop, so no matter how "sh*tty" you think your brakes are, no manufacturer is dumb enough to put a system that isn't capable of "locking them up" and therefore under most panic stop situations, the OE system will work just as well for that one single stop as any "improved" aftermarket system.

Trucks benefit from larger brakes because larger brakes dissipate heat faster. Heat built-up is what prevents the system from stopping the car from 65 mph repeatedly in a short span of time. Especially if you're towing or hauling stuff in the bed of the truck, bigger brakes will help because the OE systems are NOT engineered to exchange that much more momentum into heat repeatedly. So yes, if you're towing or using the truck as a work truck (i.e. loaded up with stuff all the time), upgrading to larger brakes WILL have benefits, especially braking from higher than normal freeway speeds (since the force/heat to dissipate grows exponentially with speed).
Wow, this is an interesting article... Check this out, and explain to the rest of us that these stopping distances are NOT a result of the 4-6 Piston caliper 15" brake systems on these cars.

Tell us how you think these stopping distances can be achieved by using 1 Piston calipers and 10" rotors with OE brake pads.

22 Cars that Stop from 60 MPH in Less Than 100 Feet - Motor Trend

Call me CRAZY but I do NOT think it's a coincidence that ALL of the cars on this list have 14+" rotors up front with 6 Piston calipers and high quality brake pads...

But hey, I don't know ANYTHING about brakes right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
There is a bit of truth to both accounts. Try putting those 22 cars on heavier and/or narrower wheels, steel rotors, the same size or skinnier tires or simply put cheaper tires (if anyone makes those sizes cheaply) You will find that their stopping distances with increase dramatically simply because the rubber is not a sticky AND/OR there is not nearly as much rubber digging its nails into the pavement.

Larger brakes provide more surface area, there fore allowing more brake pad to contact the rotor thus making the brakes more efficient. Additionally, the fact that the rotor is larger, allows it to dissipate heat much more quickly, making rotor failure or fade much less likely.

Keep in mind that the larger the rotor the larger the rotational mass, generally increasing weight and stopping distances. This is partly, why companies use lighter materials such as carbon for the rotor and aluminum or other exotic metals for the hats or centers.

If a car has crappy brakes yet is still capable of stopping within generally acceptable distances, or locking up the tires there is nothing to say that changing the rotors for better rotors or even drums (such as in the Taco) will not improve stopping distances. The stopping distances will improve, marginally; the driver will feel a stronger biting force as well, making the driver think that the braking is greatly improved, however taking into account tire compound and tire size will generally yield a greater improvement.

I've read somewhere (can't remember where, exactly) that for some vehicles, braided lines and better quality fluid did as much for the vehicle as a set of upgraded rotors would. And that includes fade due to fluid boil-over, etc.

There is so much to take into account and the tests need to be so controlled to effectively confirm one notion over the other that not many people can do these tests effectively.

Take into account: weight of vehicle, weight of fluids, weight of passenger(s) and other stuff in the car, temperature, rotors, pads, fluid, brake lines, wheels, tires, even tire pressure. Way too much to keep track of and control to accurately state that a simple BBK will improve braking distances dramatically or at all.

Its not that you don't know anything about brakes but you are comparing performance cars that are nearing supercar territory with highly upgraded parts and materials to off-the-shelf BBK's for DD's.

Personally, I put better rotors, better pads, steel braided lines and better fluid on my Neon and they all made a huge difference (seat of the pants). Not because they were bigger but because they were more resistant to fade and had better bite. (This also meant that I was replacing pads and rotors more often) My upgraded 10.5" rotors were able to outlast my friend's M3's larger rotors down a long...ok, very long downhill with lots of curves and hairpins.

I autoX'd the car at the time and I can tell you all those changes made a huge difference there too, without the rotors being larger. (Changed to slotted/drilled in front, slotted/vented in rear from rear drums)
 
  • Like
Reactions: MTD

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
I won't disagree that a properly set up big break kit wont help, but the system needs to be set up with new bias springs along with a master cylinder and brake booster to accommodate the larger brakes. If you want the look of larger brakes, this is really your only option. If looks are your top priority, you will probably never use your brakes at 100% so you will not opt to set up all of the components in the new system. If you are tracking the car, you may need larger rotors to reduce brake fade. I have only had the car on the track for 4 sessions, but did not experience any and only switched out the fluid to a DOT 4. Slotted/drilled rotors may also help disperse heat at a fraction of the cost of a new system. The best bang for the buck is definitely tires and pads, although I am not sure what compound pads the VT comes with to know what would be an upgrade. In this car and driver test, the 0-70 braking distance was reduced by over 20ft by using better tires. By using a softer compound tire, I'm sure this could go down another 10 ft as well.
Grip Galore
For comparison, the above link had the VT (12" front rotors) on Super Sports do 0-70 in 161ft, a ZR1 Corvette with 15.5/15 rotors on Pilot Sports does 70-0 in 142 ft and the 911 with 15/13.8 rotors on Potenza's does 0-70 in 155 ft.
2010 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 vs. Porsche 911 Turbo - just the numbers - National Automotive | Examiner.com
2013 Genesis Coupe, 2.0T and 3.8 R-Spec both do 70-0 at 163 ft.
Hyundai Genesis coupe Reviews - Hyundai Genesis coupe Price, Photos, and Specs - CARandDRIVER
Personally, I will stick to good tires, slotted/dimpled rotors (for looks) and possibly a grippier pad to reduce my braking times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,983 Posts
This is an older thread, so I haven't read it all. I will say this though, then Gen Coupe rotors and calipers are HEAVY compared to the stock ones. All that extra unsprung weight would I'm sure mess with the handling and acceleration and might not increase the braking.

Also as odd piece of info about the Genny Brembos... They have these bad ass calipers and big rotors, but the stock pads are cut down and only have about half the surface area that they should.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,876 Posts
Rspecs don't handle any different form te non brembo cars. Braking its that much better. The only thing they do better is resist fade and its easier to swap pads. A proper brake pad for the application and a brake cooler would help mor than a brembo install. I proved that on teack when I had my gen. The braking system I'm gonna do is he te optima brake upgrade in he front. Larger rotors out back with a new bracket to locate the caliper. Track street pads. Front brake Cooler dot 5 fluid and new lines. Still looking at an adjustable portioning valve to adjust brake bias.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,482 Posts
I was looking at a brembro upgrade for my gen, but it costs way to much. There is another company that does them at a cheaper price but the name escapes me now.
 
1 - 20 of 69 Posts
Top